Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 13:18:56 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #282 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sun, 4 Oct 92 Volume 15 : Issue 282 Today's Topics: Blue Danube Controversy over V-2 anniversary (3 msgs) galileo antenna status? GOES images from ftp site? HST Explores Io Mars Observer info? MYSTERY OBJECT NASA Daily News for 09/30/92 (Forwarded) Pioneer Venus Out of Fuel, Orbit Deteroriating Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 4 Oct 92 00:35:50 GMT From: Jay Denebeim Subject: Blue Danube Newsgroups: sci.space In article , Jeff Bytof writes: > >For some strange reason, I have visions of sleek Pan Am > >(RIP) 'liners slowly spinning across a starfield. Have I gone nuts, or should > >I put up my 2001 tape for a while? > I'd say for about 100 years. If its 100 years, its forever. We'll run out of enough energy to put the first SPS up if we don't start much sooner than that. -- |_o_o|\\ |. o.| || The Jay Denebeim | . | || Software | o | || Distillery | |// Address: UUCP: duke!wolves!deepthot!jay ====== Internet: jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us BBS:(919)-460-7430 VOICE:(919)-460-6934 ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 92 00:47:27 GMT From: Mary Shafer Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space On 29 Sep 92 15:57:34 GMT, higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) said: Bill> Apparently the fact that the A-4 was a nasty weapon that killed lots Bill> of people overshadows the importance of the anniversary. Bill> In this country, the Confederate Air Force is allowed to tell us what Bill> a great plane the B-17 was without visible interference... The B-17 wasn't built by starving slave labor. The factories weren't filled with representatives of the "mongrel" subhuman races that could be worked without food or heat or hygiene until they dropped dead or were hung "pour encourager les autres". I was just looking at the V-2 in the NASM yesterday. (Fascinating the way that they used an oversized bicycle chain to move the fins.) The display has some rather understated remarks about the fates of the work force and it is eloquently silent about Werner von Braun's role in obtaining and using these peoples. Looking closely at some of the factory photos, with the emaciated workers, is rather nasty. -- Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor "A kill is a kill." Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 92 03:33:00 GMT From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article , shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes... >On 29 Sep 92 15:57:34 GMT, higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) said: > >Bill> Apparently the fact that the A-4 was a nasty weapon that killed lots >Bill> of people overshadows the importance of the anniversary. > >Bill> In this country, the Confederate Air Force is allowed to tell us what >Bill> a great plane the B-17 was without visible interference... > >The B-17 wasn't built by starving slave labor. The factories weren't >filled with representatives of the "mongrel" subhuman races that could >be worked without food or heat or hygiene until they dropped dead or >were hung "pour encourager les autres". > >I was just looking at the V-2 in the NASM yesterday. (Fascinating the >way that they used an oversized bicycle chain to move the fins.) The >display has some rather understated remarks about the fates of the >work force and it is eloquently silent about Werner von Braun's role >in obtaining and using these peoples. Looking closely at some of the >factory photos, with the emaciated workers, is rather nasty. > >-- >Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA >shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA > "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor > "A kill is a kill." Anonymous > Von Braun had no role in the Miettlework factory. They actually had no role in the V2 outside of the development of the rocket and qualifying it for use. The rocket team was at Peenemunde and no slave labor was used there. Also, the rocket team was part of the German Army not the SS as some on other nets have stated. The team defected when the SS tried to take over near the end of the war. If you really want to press the point and be so high and mighty about it then why did we use the rocket team to build our rockets? Krafft Erike was instrumental in the Atlas design and the Von Braun Team were instrumental in the development of the Redstone, Jupiter, Saturn I and Saturn V. The rocket team was a spoil of war that we took from the Germans. In past wars the spoils were the wealth of a nation. The spoils that we took in WWII were the most valuable of all, technology. The Ampex tape recorders and our entire television industry was taken from the Germans and developed by us after the war. The Russians took the manufacturing technology of the Germans, ripping up entire factories and shipping them to Russia, including the Miettlework factory for V2's. There are many other examples of things that we use and rely on every day that came from that sorry episode in history. No ones hands are clean and to beat this horse without an understanding of the history is to grossly distort reality. Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 92 15:41:56 GMT From: Mary Shafer Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space On Sun, 4 Oct 1992 03:33:00 GMT, wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov said: > If you really want to press the point and be so high and mighty about it > then why did we use the rocket team to build our rockets? Krafft Erike > was instrumental in the Atlas design and the Von Braun Team were instrumental > in the development of the Redstone, Jupiter, Saturn I and Saturn V. The > rocket team was a spoil of war that we took from the Germans. In past wars > the spoils were the wealth of a nation. The spoils that we took in WWII were > the most valuable of all, technology. The Ampex tape recorders and our entire > television industry was taken from the Germans and developed by us after the > war. The Russians took the manufacturing technology of the Germans, > ripping up entire factories and shipping them to Russia, including the > Miettlework factory for V2's. I certainly wouldn't have treated them like mythic heroes, the way we did. This is a perfect example of the end being used to justify the means, with the spectre of the vile godless commies sweeping like a red tide over the peace-loving peoples of the free world. (Oops, I think peace-loving peoples are commies--I may have gotten my propaganda mixed up.) That still doesn't make it right. Not persecuting people for crimes against humanity because they may be useful to you is wrong. Period. > There are many other examples of things that we use and rely on every day > that came from that sorry episode in history. No ones hands are clean and > to beat this horse without an understanding of the history is to grossly > distort reality. Are you old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? I am. I was in high school and I can remember going to bed not knowing if I'd wake up in the morning to an intact country. I figure that if I feel like being a moral absolutist, I have the right. I don't have to "understand" before I can judge. Being illegitimate, being gassed in WWI, etc., don't make Hitler forgivable. Having savage reparations inflicted on Germany after WWI doesn't make Kristallnacht OK. That's just not how it goes. Furthermore, I think this attitude of yours that nobody's hands are clean so people can't be criticized without an understanding of their history is in large part responsible for the decline of modern morality. You have to step up and take responsibility for your actions, no matter what--you can't wuss out with an unhappy childhood or a mean mommy or "everybody's doing it". If it's wrong, it's wrong. Mary ------------------------------ Date: 3 Oct 92 21:31:45 GMT From: Cameron Newham Subject: galileo antenna status? Newsgroups: sci.space I have been off the net for 6 weeks. What is currently happening with the attempts to unstick the Galileo antenna ? I haven't heard anything about it in the papers so I assume it is still stuck. Has there been any success with the heating/cooling treatment? What happened with the attempts to use the deployment motors? Last I heard was that there was a small amount of movement when they were pulsed. Has this been retried? Thanks. Cameron. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Cameron (The Master) | "I find it hard to take seriously the opinion of | | cam@syzygy.DIALix.oz.au | someone who puts a Star Trek: TNG quote in their | | cam@adied.oz.au | .sig" -- Richard J. Rauser | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 92 05:33:49 GMT From: David Ray Subject: GOES images from ftp site? Newsgroups: sci.space It seems that vmd.cso.uiuc.edu has stopped their collection of GOES weather satellite images. They haven't had any new ones in 5 days. Does anybody know what happened? Are they going to start having them again, or are there other sites that have weather satellite photos available? Thanks, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 22:55:33 EDT From: "Gerard M. Foley" Subject: HST Explores Io Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary > Editors Note: Photographs and a video, "HST Studies Jovian Moon Io," are > available to media representatives by calling 202/453-8373. > > HST Single Image HST Comparison Images > Color: 92-HC-671 92-HC-672 > B&W: 92-H-726 92-H-727 > ___ _____ ___ > /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.go > | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | > ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Einstein's brain is store > /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | in a mason jar in a lab > |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | in Wichita, Kansas. > Is it possible the video "HST Studies Jovian Moon Io" could be broadcast on NASA Select TV on satellite Satcom 2R transponder 13 at an announced time and date? gerry@bluemoon.rn My amateur radio callsign is K8EF, and my packet radio address is K8EF@W8CQK.OH.USA.NA ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 92 00:05:39 GMT From: Kristian Niininen Subject: Mars Observer info? Newsgroups: sci.space How big is the Mars Observer? (weight, length etc.) What kinds of instruments it has? I haven't been reading this group for long, so that info might have been here before, but slipped away from me :) -- R. Kristian Niininen niininen@messi.uku.fi. ------------------------------ Date: 3 Oct 92 14:09:00 GMT From: Bill Nunnelee Subject: MYSTERY OBJECT Newsgroups: sci.space Several members of the Birmingham Astronomical Society observed an unusual fireball, or possibily reentering space debris, on the night of Wednesday September 30th at 8:17 CDT. Six of us were at a location just south of the city when an object was noticed traveling across the northern sky in an easterly direction (roughly from Corona Borealis to Aries and passing very near the Andromeda Galaxy). The object was approximately magnitude -1 or -2 and consisted of a pointlike head and a 30 degree or so "vapor trail"-like tail. It moved at a speed consitent with a satellite in low Earth orbit...which is to say, fast for an aircraft, yet very slow for a meteor. Of course, there was no source for reflected light, and the object did not dim in what would have been the Earth's shadow; in fact, its appearance remained extremely constant from horizon to horizon (no tumbling, breaking up, lingering train, wind dispersion of the trail, or noise). One observer using binoculars said that it looked the same through them. What really makes it interesting is that a second group of three B.A.S.ers happened to see the same object from a location about 50 miles to the northeast. There, it took a more southerly path across the sky. It passed between Beta and Gamma Lyrae, near Gamma Cygni, and near Alpha Andromedae...in other words, parallel and roughly 20 degrees south of the first track. This would seem to rule out any sort of high-flying aircraft. One observer was even able to capture several seconds of it on video. Since he had previously been recording other objects with the same settings (Venus and crescent Moon at sunset), it should be possible to get a good fix on its brightness. We would very much be interested in any other observations of this objects from amateur astronomers across the southeastern U.S. If we could get good timings and/or positions, it should be possible to determine its altitude precisely and perhaps its orbit as well. Also, is anyone aware of a satellite, upper stage, etc., that might have reentered the atmosphere at that time? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 23:33:00 GMT From: IGOR Subject: NASA Daily News for 09/30/92 (Forwarded) Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes... >In article <1992Oct3.041048.13395@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >>>>... the second shuttle mission for a CSA astronaut - >> >>I seem to have missed something: The only "CSA" I'm familiar with >>is the Confederate States of America... > >Think hard, Frank. :-) What does "SA" stand for in acronyms like NASA >and ESA? Okay, that's two letters out of three. Now, think real hard >about what countries starting with C fly astronauts on shuttle missions. >(No, Virginia, there will be no prize awarded for silliest suggestion.) >Looking up what country Steve MacLean is from is cheating. :-) Okay okay okay, i am thinking real hard now about patrick baudry being a csa astronaut.....is he actually from CRANCE......damm i should have known the guy changed nationality to get in the shuttle, he'd do everything to get into orbit... Igor Texas A&M University ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The readiness is all Hamlet ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 92 12:08:02 GMT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Pioneer Venus Out of Fuel, Orbit Deteroriating Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Einstein's brain is stored /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | in a mason jar in a lab |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | in Wichita, Kansas. ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 92 00:28:14 GMT From: Joe Wang Subject: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding) Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton In article <28SEP199219445933@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes: >Therefore demand would >increase greatly, while lowering the cost of our overall industrial process. >If this were an American enterprise, this could put our basic industries >that rely on platinum based catalytic processes to become more cost >competitive on a world basis, which would help ease our balance of payments >burden and begin to bring terrestrial wealth back into this nation. How? If you lowered platinum costs by a factor of 10, how would you benefit "American Industries Inc." more than "Japan Industries Inc." After all, Japan Industries Inc. could buy your cheap platinum on the spot market just as easily as American Industries Inc. ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 282 ------------------------------